00:30:02 Samuel Gordon: Good evening. We will get underway in just a few minutes. 00:30:49 Jim Crawford: A plea at the beginning... Two weeks ago this Workshop was attacked with words and actions we all deplore. The next night Tony Salerno (Dryden's IT guy) told the Planning Board your zoom link was posted on a Twitter account Zoom-hackers use. But Dan Lamb, ignoring the Twitter post, told the media "I think people came to the meeting with the expressed intent to shut down the meeting" ... implicating Dryden Republicans as perpetrators. That's a smear of a lot of good Dryden people! [Lamb on WHCU] https://whcuradio.com/news/025520-stop-the-steal-mantra-escalated-into-offensive-hate-rhetoric-at-dryden-meeting/ Let's start with a retraction & apology from our Deputy Supervisor? Right? And Martha Robertson attacking Bruno on Facebook? Another apology? And Jason Leifer calling Republicans "Nazis" a few months ago? An apology? Our elected officials must stop "poisoning the well"! No more Hostility & Slander!! 00:35:32 Diana Drake: Is there a limit on participants tonight 00:35:39 JAMES HOLMAN: 500 00:40:04 Diana Drake: Do you have to admit people? I've had people call me that they can't get on 00:40:38 Jolene: I know someone that can’t get on as well 00:40:43 Kyle Hatch - EDR: Yes, people are being let in through the waiting room as they call in. 00:40:49 Joel Cisne: Yes, the meeting moderator has to let folks in -- I got in fairly quickly. There 00:41:01 Diana Drake: ok thank you 00:45:37 Diane Pamel: I don't see the reactions option on the bottom of the screen. Is it somewhere else? 00:46:10 Kyle Hatch - EDR: For some people the raise hand option will be at the bottom of the participants list. 00:48:25 Christine Nash: What is the maximum number of people allowed into this meeting? 00:48:32 Diana Drake: 500 00:48:39 Kyle Hatch - EDR: The meeting capacity tonight is 500. 00:48:46 Christine Nash: Great! 00:49:20 Christine Nash: Will the comments also be available in the recording? 00:49:38 Tony Salerno: yes, comments to everyone are recorded with the meeting 00:50:37 Joel Cisne: Thanks for moderating, Sam, Kyle & Jane. Would this chat be an appropriate "parking lot" for questions that arise during the meeting? 00:51:06 Tony Salerno: Yes Joel 00:51:24 Kyle Hatch - EDR: Yes, if you want to leave comments or ask questions without speaking you can do that here. 00:52:37 Tony Salerno: For those who came on later. You will notice that all are muted and cannot unmute yourselves. Use the "Raise Hand" icon which is either at the bottom of your screen or in the participants list if you would like to speak. 00:54:45 Douglas Brown: Well said Bruno! 00:54:46 Karl Kolesnikoff: can you define; defined nodes. 00:55:08 William Drake: Where can we see the nodes? 00:55:32 Kyle Hatch - EDR: A node would be an area of more dense development than the rest of the town. Think of it as a cluster of residential and commercial properties. 00:55:35 Susan Suarez: But unplanned sprawl of development is not a desirable outcome for many. 00:56:05 Kyle Hatch - EDR: Examples of existing nodes in the Town would be the villages of Dryden and Freeville 00:56:13 JAMES HOLMAN: varna too correct? 00:56:37 Diana Drake: yes 00:56:41 Kyle Hatch - EDR: Yes. Varna would also be considered a node 00:56:59 paul simonet: Well said, Bruno! 00:57:35 Bonnie Scutt: Very good point, Bruno! Wholeheartedly support farmers. 00:57:59 William Drake: How about a map of nodes 00:58:42 Rocco Lucente: William, there are maps on the Dryden2045 website which show the various nodes. I think it’s under a section titled “Community Maps” or something similar. 00:58:44 Diana Drake: Will always support farmers and local farms 00:59:28 Kyle Hatch - EDR: Maps being used in the plan can be found here: https://www.dryden2045.org/community-mapping 00:59:46 Eveline Ferretti: Not sure where this thought might fit, but would like to suggest greater use of pop-up markets in supporting local farmers and also artisans. Dryden has much positive in creative energy to share and celebrate, rather along the lines of our natural areas. It seems like we could use our location on Route 13 (thruway from Ithaca to Syracuse, Ithaca to Greek Peak in winter etc) to flexibly provide a market for local producers of various kinds. See this as one way to help put Dryden on the map as an attractive destination rather just as a strip mall like development along the highway. 00:59:48 Jacques Schickel: protect ag land from solar 01:01:16 Joel Cisne: "Zoning is an expression of community values" -- well said, Martha. We are here to work out the possibilities for the future, including the needs of many, from business-building, agriculture, energy production, sustainable community, affordable housing, and more. 01:01:50 Jolene: if we value the land, why does every town have steep slope development restrictions EXCEPT Dryden? we are experiencing deforestation and water damage along rot. 13. it was in the original discussions, but POOF, gone now. I understand the revenue from the Varna development is an incentive not to have steep slope restrictions....but at the cost of damaging the environment. 01:02:06 paul simonet: Martha, would love to follow up with you 01:02:09 kathryn russell: I agree with Joel 01:02:13 Jim Crawford: Martha, doesn’t “protect” usually = Regulate? 01:02:18 Christine Nash: I totally agree with Jacques 01:04:13 Mitchell Lavine: Very well said Chuck 01:04:35 kathryn russell: Excellent perspective from Charles 01:04:47 Nancy Kleinrock: Yes, Charles expressed the value of zoning from various perspectives 01:05:37 JAMES HOLMAN: eveline in regard to popup markets, consider speaking w/ Ringwood raceway a local gokart, entertainments, and group space with plenty of scenic space, and room for gatherings that could be a good place to support/host one of the popup markets 01:06:51 Fred Conner: Agree with Charles’ viewpoints on zoning. 01:07:31 Douglas Brown: What Ed Wilson just said! 01:07:53 Jolene: yes! 01:08:33 Martha Robertson: There's water and sewer at the north edge of the Village of Dryden, where the NYSDOT intended to put a new facility - and they never did. 01:08:48 Dave Bradley: Dairy farming is as close to a free of profit operation as is possible to maintain, largely due to no market controls and overproduction of milk in Iowa/other midwest states. This overproduction results is collapsed prices, since the demand for diary products is stable/shrinking somewhat. This puts local farmers in a bad spot through no fault of their own. We should think of converting some dairy farming/hay/corn operations to different crops - perhaps ones that can do an energy (from starch/oil)-fiber-protein mix. But this would require a DEMAND for the energy and fiber portions of these crops. No local demand means that farmers should pretty much give up, and that is not a good thing. So what can be done to get industrial operations that provide a local market for the starch/sugar/fat portion, fiber portion as well as the food (protein) part. For example, we could replace all regional consumption of petroleum derived diesel, which would lower the export of dollars from the import of petroleum products. DB 01:09:05 paul simonet: Well said, Ed. 01:09:07 William Ackroyd: what portion and/or section(s) of the town have water/sewer/broadband/gas infrastructure? 01:09:58 Eveline Ferretti: Thanks James--I live near Ringwood Raceway and agree, it would be a promising spot. And there are many others, also more directly in Dryden. Lots of good possibilities! 01:11:40 Karl Kolesnikoff: why can’t pop up businesses happen now? 01:12:44 C Dougherty: Does the Town have Overlays? IS there a Regional Finger Lakes Water Authority or any large strategically placed reservoirs? 01:13:00 Ed Wilson: I do agree broad band access needs improvement but the town should not become a broad band supplier. Subsidize possibly but not be a competitor to private enterprise 01:13:07 Nancy Kleinrock: Affordable, reliable broadband is essential. The town board’s municipal broadband proposal will be a spectacular boon for the town and its residents 01:13:24 Martha Robertson: We should create a list of unused buildings that could be redeveloped. Recently Emmy's Organics moved into Dryden because they found a building they could renovate for their use. Also Incodema is about to do that in the former Crispell's building on Slaterville Rd. 01:13:37 Douglas Brown: I agree with Nancy to a point...but at what cost to the taxpayer? 01:14:08 Nancy Kleinrock: As proposed, it will be a net benefit to the taxpayer 01:14:15 Dave Bradley: Target the supply chain for wind turbines. There are 8000 parts that go into a turbine - we should be able to make some of those around here. Also, large scale mobile cranes (best for wind turbines vs “crawler cranes”) should be targeted - these go for around $10 million each. With the drastic increase in the wind turbine biz (manufacturing/installation) in this country - form $30 billion/yr to north of $100 billion/yr in the next 4 years or so, this will be a rapidly expanding sector. Lots of supply chain biz/services to these supply chain businesses/lots of job potential. - Dave Bradley 01:14:35 Ed Wilson: Net gain to the taxpayer is a dream 01:16:10 Karl Kolesnikoff: If anyone in Dryden is interested in participating in a broadband effort please contact me at karl.kolesnikoff@gmail.com 01:16:28 Joel Cisne: Affordable housing--like broadband Internet access--is a fundamental necessity, right along with electricity, phone service, safe food, and clean water. Dryden owes itself--literally--as there are a great many people in the Town who do not have these things. 01:17:45 Amy Dickinson: just what we need in Dryden: Large Mobile Cranes 01:18:26 William Ackroyd: unnecessary derogatory political comment! 01:18:41 Mitchell Lavine: Great idea Dave 01:18:52 Ed Wilson: Until a good battery is developed Wind turbines and solar will not be adequate to meet our energy needs. When the wind isn't blowing or the sun is not shining renewables don't supply our need energy 01:18:55 Martha Robertson: TC3 is a huge asset right in our town! To support local workforce, we should strengthen our connections with TC3. Make sure they're providing the training that local employers are looking for. 01:19:03 JAMES HOLMAN: it would be a huge investment/risk to get into manufacturing wind turbine equipment imo 01:19:10 Jolene: agreed William ackroyd. totally distracted from his point 01:19:16 Bonnie Scutt: I agree, Ed Wilson! More businesses in Dryden equals higher revenue to Town from those business, which hopefully would lower the average property owner's tax. 01:20:15 Christine Nash: Does Rocco live in the Town of Dryden? 01:21:33 Eveline Ferretti: Agreed Martha--connection with TC3 seems an underutilized resource. 01:21:35 Rocco Lucente: Christine, I do not. But I have worked in Dryden for 15+ years and care deeply of the future of the town. 01:21:41 Nancy Kleinrock: Dryden has a diligent and hard-working board — and hard-working committees, too 01:21:55 Nancy Kleinrock: Thanks to all of you for your service to the community 01:22:10 Amy Dickinson: Yes — sincere thank you to the volunteers on the planning board! 01:22:22 Joel Cisne: Hear, hear. Thank you all. 01:22:51 Nancy Kleinrock: (By “board” I meant town board.) 01:23:28 Nancy Kleinrock: (and encompassed the planning board under the “committee” umbrella) 01:23:36 Martha Robertson: Heartily agree with the props for the Town Board and Planning Board! 01:24:26 Rocco Lucente: I completely echo Paul’s comments about trying to do the right thing. We all want what’s best for the town! 01:25:16 Douglas Brown: Well said Paul Simoneet 01:25:44 Shirley Lyon: I know many residents that are deeply concerned about impact of quick growth and impact on their wells. Some wells currently have naturally occurring arsenic, lowering water levels. It seems we are more concerned for future residents than the ones that live here and pay the taxes. 01:26:28 Jolene: agreed regarding water issues....especially on steep slope development 01:26:51 Dave Bradley: Ed Wilson - batteries are not needed for most wind farms (capacity of battery systems is too small - pumped hydro is the proper type of battery for them). But for now, these are not needed - especially in NY where we already have a grid buffered by Quebec Hydro and the 1.4 GW of pumped hydro (Niagara Falls, Blenheim Gilboa) as well as deferred Hydro of more than 1 GW. We just need massive wind turbine deployment for several years - Battery availability is just an excuse to not do what is needed to be done with respect to electricity supply. - Dave Bradley 01:26:55 Alicia Caswell: We need to focus on long term employment opportunities. The above mentioned mobile cranes, wind turbines, solar panels, etc will only bring short term employment to the area. This is only like a 15 year plan, what about 20, 30, 40 years? 01:27:10 Shirley Lyon: Those of us on private wells and sewer are deeply concerned! 01:28:02 Martha Robertson: Shirley Lyon - "Nodal development" really helps to protect those of us on wells, because it means creating more density where there's already water and sewer infrastructure. 01:28:52 Jolene: Martha Robertson.....then why has steep slope development not been restricted? it is common knowledge there is little water on slopes 01:29:47 Dave Bradley: Alicia - I meant MANUFACTURE of stuff, not necessarily DEPLOYMENT (which are just short term construction jobs. Sorry for the confusion, though more deployed wind turbines would be great for farmers ($15,000/yr for renting out 1/16th of an acre). Dave Bradley 01:30:03 Ed Wilson: Dave what you say is not necessarily true. Local sources are required as well to support stability of the power grid. I have 30 + years of experience in the energy field and Hydro Quebec does not support stability of our local grid. 01:30:13 Douglas Brown: Martha Robertson, Just an FYI, not everyone wishes to live in "nodal developments"...part of that "diversity" idea. 01:30:23 Martha Robertson: Jolene - I'm not up on the zoning details! Slopes should be handled carefully, for sure! 01:30:56 Martha Robertson: Douglas - Absolutely! agree. 01:30:58 Dave Bradley: Ed, On a high on the grid level it does. Dave Bradley 01:31:06 Jolene: ......I’M up on the zoning. Every surrounding town has restrictions on steep slope....except Dryden. 01:31:27 Jacques Schickel: more nodal development in Ellis Hollow 01:31:37 Amy Dickinson: Love the idea of promoting bicycle tourism. 01:31:51 Jolene: we’ve got some rules.......but we don’t follow them 01:33:13 Jacques Schickel: People want to get in but the meeting is closed if folks did not pre-register. Just got a text from someone trying to get in. 01:33:38 Edith Ayer: Yes promote the Air BnB 01:33:38 Shirley Lyon: I have met with NYS DOT the re directing water running off from steep slope caused by larger developments is impacting South side of Route 13. Est. cost to taxpayers now will be close to 2 million. Want to see the damage e- mail shirley13068@yahoo.com 01:33:45 Jim Crawford: Agree with Bruno about promoting B&Bs. 01:33:52 Diane Pamel: What do you mean by business development around trails? 01:34:07 Joel Cisne: As long as we tax them as appropriate to all hospitality businesses. 01:34:41 Jolene: yes Joel! why should they get a tax break when local businesses are paying taxes to run businesses 01:35:06 Jolene: every air b&b needs to be taxed as a hotel 01:35:47 Shirley Lyon: NO, air b n b fracture neighborhoods, private septics can be at risk, traffic....no thanks I lived next to a part air b no. 01:36:30 Diane Pamel: Are there right of way issues with the creeks? Parking? 01:37:07 Diane Pamel: Thanks Martha- that answered my question 01:38:00 Dan Lamb: I just want to clarify something said earlier. The town tax rate went from $5.00/1,000 to $5.08/1,000 last year. We agree that economic development improves the tax base and have had some great new investments recently that will help us keep these increases low. 01:38:03 Eveline Ferretti: Dryden is also a bit cross country skiing destination. Again, lots of potential to celebrate, attract interest, and sustainable businesses around that. 01:38:15 Nancy Kleinrock: Hammond Hill is a wonderful example of mixed-use trails where trail users of all types cooperate, share the trail, and share the trail maintenance work, as well 01:38:47 kathryn russell: Quality of water in Dryden Lake has suffered I understand. This seems like the right place to mention that. 01:38:51 Joel Cisne: Hear, hear. The state forests of HHSF/SHSF/YBSF are great community assets, and generally well-managed. The better we steward them, the better our investment. 01:38:59 Nancy Kleinrock: Well said, Martha, regarding Airbnbs 01:39:36 Shirley Lyon: Instead trying to grab at increasing revenue, how about reducing some spending. 01:40:01 Diane Pamel: The part between Lake and Purvis? 01:42:05 Alicia Caswell: restructure the dam at Dryden lake, dredge the lake there is lots of recreation right there if these things were done (fishing, kayaking, rail trail, etc) 01:42:07 John Suter: Biking can also be a commuter option, facilitating access to Dryden jobs and for the town's residents to nearby work outside the town. 01:42:11 Dan Lamb: The town supports short term rentals. We just made short term rentals — or Air BnBs — an allowed use. Our zoning law previously did not allow or define them. We also put in place some basic standards for operation. 01:43:12 C Dougherty: Enjoyed snowshoeing as well on my 27 acre organic farm last week. Need a good marketing plan for recreational tourism. Come visit Dryden Trails Gateway to the Finger Lakes :) 01:43:12 Nancy Kleinrock: agree with dredging Dryden lake - nearly half the lake is only about 2 feet deep 01:43:20 paul simonet: Good comments, Karl 01:43:37 Christine Nash: You could reach out to the Department of Corrections for volunteers. People who are required to perform community service and/or want to learn a new trade. 01:44:16 Dave Bradley: Kathryn - Eutriification is caused by too much soluble phosphate in the water coming into Dryden Lake. Alum addition is the cure for that - but the DEC has to be told to do that/to buy the alum (which is really cheap, but so is NY State right now). Too much phosphate + heat (summer) + light gives a massive surge in algae growth. No phosphate = no algae growth - they can make ammonia from air, but they can’t make phosphorous atoms… 01:44:58 Nancy Kleinrock: hopshire brewery would possibly be open to the pop-up market idea or other programs/events on their land 01:47:26 JAMES HOLMAN: agreed Bruno, also who is the benefactor from the solar farms near ferguson etc to the people? 01:48:01 Douglas Brown: Also agree...all "electric" is NOT economically sustainable for the average person. 01:48:05 William Ackroyd: absolutely correct Bruno 01:48:10 Jolene: agreed. I know developers who refuse to consider Dryden for this reason alone. 01:48:10 Christine Nash: Good luck getting people to buy a house where they can't have a wood-burning stove or fireplace 01:48:17 Alicia Caswell: 100% are Jolene 01:48:17 Jacques Schickel: yes Bruno 01:48:31 Jim Crawford: All electric = vulnerable to black outs. 01:48:47 Fred Stock: Agree Bruno. 01:48:50 Christine Nash: Yes, Jim! What happens when the power goes out? 01:48:57 Alicia Caswell: Agree Bruno 01:48:58 Jolene: the grid can’t handle having everyone dumped on it. 01:49:11 Nancy Kleinrock: if you don’t like where solar farms are located, that’s where zoning rules come into play. you can’t have it both ways. 01:49:17 Eveline Ferretti: James Holeman: One benefactor would probably be farmers who are not farming particular, possibly marginal fields but hoping to use their land to harvest solar farm. 01:49:29 Shirley Lyon: Yes, why on a hot Ithaca summer are they concerned about the grids, “load”. 01:49:32 Eveline Ferretti: To harvest solar energy. 01:49:44 Diane Pamel: Are we talking about having to retrofit current houses to electric if they are wood or propane now? 01:49:57 Dave Bradley: Ah yes, the “who owns the view” issue. The present answer is “Usually rich people” and those who can pay for the lawyers”. Maybe the issue of who owns the view needs to be settled/legislated, so that rich people don’t monopolize that, too. Don’t they have ownership of just about everything, already, and in general, that’s not a good thing. 01:50:01 Douglas Brown: I would like to see the proof of the "heat pump" sustainability as opposed to natural gas, etc. 01:50:03 Alicia Caswell: We do not have an electrical infrastructure that could handle everyone being on electric only. Our current infrastructure is 40+ years old. 01:50:04 John Suter: Affordable broadband is important not only for business. It's a critical for all residents, particularly low- and middle-income folks and students. Post-pandemic, the tools like zoom will continue to be expanded and essential. 01:50:15 Jeff Walkuski: How do you power this? you have to have a balance! 01:50:16 JAMES HOLMAN: so individuals that rent land benefit, but who benefits from the energy? the local community, state, or private corps 01:50:27 Jolene: Diane Pamel...if they don’t know, you’ll be required to do so when selling your home....at your expense. 01:50:36 Christine Nash: They're talking about situations where if someone has to replace an oil burning furnace, they would have to convert their system to electric and absorb the cost of doing so. 01:50:44 Joseph Wilson: Pink note re all electric buildings is not accurately captured. Please check it. 01:50:55 Eveline Ferretti: James--my electricity bill has gone down by 15% after subscribing to a solar farm. 01:50:56 Jeff Walkuski: Fossil fuel are fantastic! 01:51:06 Dan Lamb: Diane Pamel — absolutely not. 01:51:42 Jolene: read the zoning, ask the questions on record 01:51:58 Jeff Walkuski: Read “The Case for Fossil Fuels” 01:52:15 Alicia Caswell: Why do they think they can mandate this? Many of the homes in the area are 30+ years old and the owners are on fixed incomes 01:52:31 Douglas Brown: There is nothing wrong with alternative energy, i.e. solar, wind, et al. However, with current technology, natural gas is the hands down winner for affordability for the vast majority of people. We don't want to cut our own throats and make Dryden non-viable for new and existing residents 01:52:49 Jeff Walkuski: How are you going to PAY FOR IT! 01:52:56 Eveline Ferretti: I don't believe the issue is mandating existing homes, but new development. 01:53:53 Rocco Lucente: Eveline, if that’s the case then there’s some degree of misperception in the community on that point which the committee may want to clear up! I’ve seen people express this concern on social media. 01:53:55 Bonnie Scutt: I use propane to heat my home in the winter. It costs me a little over $2000 for the winter season. If I were to switch to all electric, my cost would be well close to double that! One of my smaller apartments is all electric and their cost per month in the winter is $375-$450 / month. 01:54:14 Dave Bradley: Douglas - it really depends on the source of the electricity. Renewable electricity (wind, hydro, solar) is massively more sustainable than fracked methane. Also, have you taken depletion and long term price uncertainty with methane into consideration. The sustainable balance is not even close - fracked methane is a loser on the sustainable issue. 01:54:22 Edith Ayer: So if I sell my house does it have to be electric a the time of sale or will that be the responsibility of the new home owner? 01:54:51 Shirley Lyon: Let us grandfather in current homes that use fossil fuels, etc. That will stay in place even during a selling of the home. 01:55:01 Eveline Ferretti: Rocco, the text on the post it note says "Improve energy efficiency and sustainability of new construction." 01:55:02 Jolene: Edith Ayer....get a screen shot of the answer.....and save it, they’re gonna say no 01:55:23 Matt Dennis: Bonnie, when talking about heat pumps, your heating costs will be cut in half. Sounds like your comparing propane to straight electric. 01:55:39 Douglas Brown: That assumes the "state" will have sufficient electrical generation capability via their supposed "green" resources. Hydro? Nuclear? The two cleanest but I seriously doubt they would use them. 01:55:55 Jolene: agreed, Douglas. 01:55:56 Dan Lamb: There will be no mandates on existing homes. 01:56:15 Christine Nash: Answer the question 01:56:21 Eveline Ferretti: Rocco--what Dan Lamb said. 01:56:24 Rocco Lucente: Thank you for clearing that up, Dan. I know there is some confusion at least among a few people in the town on that point. 01:56:31 Jim Crawford: Fuel choices must remain voluntary. 01:56:44 Douglas Brown: I FULLY agree with Jim Crawford! 01:56:44 Jolene: Dan Lamb......will the current homeowner or purchaser be responsible to changing home to fully electric when the home is sold? 01:56:48 Shirley Lyon: I will not trust the “grid” to be my sole supplier of heat and lights. 01:57:13 Douglas Brown: I agree with Shirley Lyon and William Ackroyd. 01:57:43 Jacques Schickel: They are already strong arming new businesses to go all electric 01:57:45 Christine Nash: Thank you, Bill! 01:57:56 Alicia Caswell: I too agree that no one should mandate how homeowners heat their home. 01:58:16 Jacques Schickel: Jane can’t speak for the town board or planning 01:58:19 Christine Nash: There's not a big avalanche problem here. 01:58:24 Bonnie Scutt: Thank you Bill for clarifying that! As long as we as homeowners, have a choice to fuel our homes how we want/need to, without repercussions, that makes me breathe a lot easier! 01:58:37 Eveline Ferretti: Not in India only--have lived in Dryden for 30 years. Only in last 3 yars has my home flooded; twice! 01:58:48 Christine Nash: Avalanches aren't a new thing either. 01:58:51 Jolene: waiting for an answer, Dan Lamb..... 01:59:00 Alicia Caswell: Maybe the Town/Village should put in their own electric like Groton has! 01:59:04 Nancy Kleinrock: Christine, every one of us is a member of the global community and should think about the needs of our fellow humans, not only ourselves 01:59:09 Dan Lamb: If this goes forward, it would be for new developments. 01:59:09 Sandy Abbey: Electricity is generated from steam turbines using fossil fuels, nuclear, biomass, geothermal and solar energy.......so if electricity is generated using all of the above then why would you dictate how a homeowner lives in their home comfortably for themselves. Electric is expensive for the average home owner. It is BS to tell a person who is paying property tax, school tax how they heat their home. I believe you will drive prospective home buyer/renters, businesses out of the area. 01:59:18 C Dougherty: Small farmers need grants and financial assistance to improve energy options. Would like access to install solar, irrigation systems, windmills for aeration, natural gas, high-speed broadband, to help maintain and improve the farm business. 01:59:22 Douglas Brown: If Kathryn is speak of "man made global warming" it is a political theory not fact. I see no reason to harm our economy for the sake of politics. 01:59:33 Jacques Schickel: Bonnie, they are absolutley planning to force electric 01:59:45 Christine Nash: Again, Nancy, avalanches aren't a new global occurrence. 01:59:48 Jolene: new developments......until we change the definition 01:59:54 Joel Cisne: freedom is just that. Well said, Kathryn. 02:00:44 Jim Crawford: No on explicit wording on fuel choices. We need to be Pro-Choice on Fuels! 02:00:46 Alicia Caswell: Make it available to anyone who lives within the town of Dryden (not just the village) connect to it. People may be more willing to switch to all electric where there is a greater cost savings. However I do not believe that you can mandate this as people need to have back up sources for heating. 02:00:54 Fred Conner: Thank you Kathryn, good comments. 02:00:54 Jolene: good point. 02:01:01 Lawrence Lyon: An alarming future scenario: brutal winter cold, most or all Dryden homes dependent solely on electric heat, loss of electricity supply. Widespread misery and potential disaster. 02:01:05 JAMES HOLMAN: keep in mind there a lot of environmental reprcussions for electric/solar/wind aswell 02:01:11 Jolene: good point Christine nash 02:01:14 Shirley Lyon: I’m with Jim Crawford! 02:01:16 Fred Stock: Amen to Sandy Abbey's comment! 02:01:20 Christine Nash: Nancy K, are you all going to demand that China step up to the global climate initiative? 02:01:57 Sandy Abbey: China will own the USA soon Christine Nash 02:02:17 Shirley Lyon: Yes, Christine!! 02:02:39 Lyza Feint: providing resources, grants, options, incentives, education is fine. Just no mandates. We all want to be good to the earth but we need to be able to make our own decision of what works for us. 02:02:59 Eveline Ferretti: Town support to help people make their homes more comfortable and energy efficient (i.e.. less costly) --as a home owner struggling with that I say yay! 02:03:00 Matt Dennis: Lawrence, if the power goes out, your gas furnace or boiler won't work either. 02:03:02 Jolene: Liza Feint.....yes! 02:03:46 Christine Nash: Right. The incentive will be to pay very high taxes to heat your home with anything other than electric. 02:03:56 Alicia Caswell: Some of us are setup with generators for when the power goes out 02:04:00 Jolene: yes, Christine Nash 02:04:13 Sandy Abbey: 96% energy efficient natural furnaces are available 02:04:18 Rocco Lucente: Thank you for the kind words, Martha. They are much appreciated! 02:04:26 Christine Nash: Are those generators gas fueled? That's a no no! 02:04:27 Shirley Lyon: Grandfather in the homes that heat with wood and fossil fuels. 02:04:34 Bonnie Scutt: Sandy Abbey - spot on! 02:04:52 Alicia Caswell: You will never completely get away from gas powered 02:04:54 Shirley Lyon: Grandfather the house not current owners. 02:05:06 Jolene: yes, Shirley lyon 02:05:28 Douglas Brown: Well, in one way, a mandatory "all electric" law would enhance the value of the homes that were "grandfathered" for natural gas, etc. 02:05:57 Martha Robertson: Michael Murphy - Yes! Build for the future! 02:06:03 Dan Lamb: Agreed, Shirley. Thanks Martha for helping clear this up. 02:06:27 Christine Nash: People will still want to buy gas or wood fireplaces. 02:06:51 Alicia Caswell: So everything is a no no! 02:06:53 Sandy Abbey: maybe new housing should be built will solar energy instead of demanding all electric 02:07:02 Fred Conner: Thank you Michael, build for the future! And the future is Not fossil fuels. 02:07:18 Christine Nash: If Dryden doesn't offer any new construction with those desired features, they will find themselves with a lot of new empty houses on the market. 02:07:19 Eveline Ferretti: Wise words Michael Murphy--thank you. 02:07:37 Linda Clougherty: Well said Mike. 02:07:42 kathryn russell: Good points Michael Murphy. Incentives for existing buildings to go green. Plan for the future. 02:07:57 Martha Robertson: Heat pumps work to dehumidify, too! You get 3 services for one system! Heating, cooling, and dehumidifying. 02:08:28 Shirley Lyon: I wonder after the the low int. rates that is driving the housing market, will we over build. 02:09:27 Shirley Lyon: While many people are coming here getting out of the city, many of our neighbors are leaving the state. 02:10:01 Jim Crawford: The STRETCH Codes are chasing after diminishing returns. No to those codes. 02:10:03 Douglas Brown: I fully agree with everything Bruno just said! 02:10:06 Jolene: exactly Bruno..... 02:10:27 Shirley Lyon: Yes....Bruno! 02:10:42 Jolene: we’ve seen this before! 02:10:43 Bonnie Scutt: Excellent points, Bruno! I remember well those past initiatives to force all electric onto the people for both new construction, and then the trickle down to the existing homeowner. 02:10:46 Alicia Caswell: Yes!!! 100% Agree Bruno! Very well said! 02:10:49 William Ackroyd: everyone on this call that has a gas meter on the sde of their house, go out right now and turn it iff! 😞 02:10:55 Sandy Abbey: Thanks Bruno 02:10:56 Christine Nash: Thank you, Bruno! 02:10:58 Eveline Ferretti: But I do believe that proposal was about new construction only. I looked at the text and that's what it said. Nothing about existing stoves or homes. 02:11:08 Martha Robertson: Fossil fuels are killing all of us. Our kids can't believe we don't see that. 02:11:21 Fred Stock: Well said Bruno!!!! 02:12:00 Ed Wilson: Martha isn't it strange how our kids are being brain washed into believe the world is coming to an end 02:12:09 Jolene: Martha Robertson....so you agree that eventually ALL HOMES will be forced electric? your statement reveals your opinion. 02:12:10 William Drake: Well said, thank you Bruno 02:12:19 Dave Bradley: Propane ($2.74/gal) is at least 60% more costly on an operating basis than an air sourced heat pump with a Coefficient of Performance (COP) of 2. And new propane furnaces are about the same price as an air sourced heat pump 02:12:34 Martha Robertson: The costs of fossil fuels have been foisted off on society; that's why they've been "economic" in the past. We're spending BILLIONS for the climate disasters caused by fossil fuels. 02:12:40 Alicia Caswell: Martha - Everything manufactured is killing us 02:12:44 Jolene: yes, Ed Wilson 02:13:13 Alicia Caswell: lets start with manufactures cutting their fossil fuels 02:13:58 Douglas Brown: ALWAYS remember "incentives" come out of the taxpayers' pockets! 02:14:17 Alicia Caswell: very true Douglas Brown 02:14:19 JAMES HOLMAN: there are climate implications for every form of obtaining energy, from development, transfer,refining,application and recycling/disposing 02:14:20 Jolene: exactly, Douglas Brown! 02:14:40 Rocco Lucente: Will just do a written comment: Encouraging the concentration of development in existing population centers is essential for stopping sprawl, which is an inefficiency which harms both the environment and quality of life. 02:15:00 paul simonet: Well said, Bruno and Doug. 02:15:28 Amy Dickinson: Agree Rocco! Build/rebuild our villages. 02:15:31 Christine Nash: Mitchell, is this the 12 year argument again? 02:16:04 Martha Robertson: Buzz Lavine is exactly right; we are running out of time. New construction is the low-hanging fruit! The costs of renewable heating/cooling are competitive and still coming down. 02:16:10 Jolene: Rocco Lucerne......so we should just. old personal property rights, yes? for the good of the environment, we can force everyone into developments. okay, got your point. 02:16:53 Jacques Schickel: The science is not settled. 02:17:19 Douglas Brown: The "science" isn't even proven "science". 02:17:23 Rocco Lucente: Jolene, I think anyone who is even a little familiar with my political views will tell you that I don’t believe that at all. To be clear: I believe in ZERO mandates. When I say encourage I am not referencing mandates. 02:17:28 Ed Wilson: for aanother climate view please read 02:17:32 kathryn russell: 98% of scientists agree. The science is settled. 02:17:54 Ed Wilson: Unstoppable Global Warming evry 1500 years 02:17:57 Jolene: we will see what shakes out of the tree..doors are being opened 02:18:01 kathryn russell: Well said Buzz Lavine. 02:18:13 Jacques Schickel: wrong Kathryn 02:18:15 Martha Robertson: Agree, Kathryn. The U.S. is the only industrialized country where anyone thinks there's a debate. 02:18:24 Douglas Brown: 98% of scientists whose lively hood is dependent upon the believe in "global warming"...yes. 02:19:09 William Drake: Please show us these prices/cost analysis you a stating Mitchell Lavigne, perhaps you could convince some of us! 02:19:09 Shirley Lyon: We are building on a poor foundation, steep slope flooding due to deforestation, many of our roads need repair, wells and clean water are a problem. It bothers me that a majority of the earlier conversation was about recreation. 02:19:19 Christine Nash: The science has never been settled and never will be. Climate change is a fact. However, the timeline is grossly exaggerated. Every 4000 years our planet goes through a similar pattern. The climate change alarmists are trying to convince people that this is the end if we don't do something now, and it's just not true. 02:19:53 Ed Wilson: Totally agree Christine 02:19:54 Jacques Schickel: this will crush the poor 02:19:59 Douglas Brown: Right on Christine Nash! 02:20:14 Diane Pamel: Thank you Bruno! 02:20:25 Jolene: yes, Bruno! 02:21:01 Alicia Caswell: I do not disagree with what you are saying Mitch, however who is going to pay for all of this? 02:21:02 Douglas Brown: Absolutely agree with Bruno. 02:21:02 Bonnie Scutt: Let people make their own choices as to how to fuel their homes! 02:21:08 paul simonet: Well said, Bruno! 02:23:14 paul simonet: Thanks, Joe. 02:23:46 Jim Crawford: With electric dependence, we need to bear in mind the threat of electromagnetic pulse weapons designed to wreck the power grid. 02:24:03 Alicia Caswell: We all know that everything being developed is being done so with climate control in mind. 02:24:43 Shirley Lyon: THANK YOU, JIm Crawford. An EMP is a possible. 02:25:05 Dan Lamb: The town is not going to force anyone to change their heat sources. Period. 02:25:09 JAMES HOLMAN: anyone kow the avg lifespan of a turbine? also how do you dispose of them, large fiberglass blades go to landfill? 02:25:10 Sandy Abbey: Point on Bruno.....no one wants this forced upon them. Let those who have the $$ and want to change out their current heating system to one that fits the boards agenda, then by all means go for it. I work pay check to pay check and I do not have the option to change my current heating system. 02:25:20 Jolene: not to mention the grid is getting OLD 02:26:15 Shirley Lyon: We will not be forced to switch,but will there be a sur charge down the road. 02:26:31 Alicia Caswell: Sandy - I agree as well! I am a single mom on a fixed income, how can they expect people to upgrade their heating systems on fixed incomes or living paycheck to paycheck? 02:26:36 Bonnie Scutt: Agree, Sandy Abbey. Should be by choice, not by zoning laws! 02:26:39 Jolene: exactly, Shirley lyon 02:26:41 Ed Wilson: Wind turbine blade life is approx. 20 - 25 years. Look at the web and see the huge blade disposal area where blades are being just buried. 02:26:47 Douglas Brown: I would love to be off the grid and self sustaining and electric would be the way to go. HOWEVER, it is currently not economically viable for the average Joe. 02:27:03 Chris Carrick: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ge-announces-first-us-wind-turbine-blade-recycling-program-with-veolia/591869/ 02:28:40 Eveline Ferretti: Douglas--many of these renewable energy technologies not yet very affordable; but costs are coming down. They have already come down significantly in the last 15-20 years. I'm hopeful they will be even more affordable in the not too distant future. 02:28:51 paul simonet: Agree, Charles! 02:29:16 Alicia Caswell: Do we have enough electric cars in the community that would sustain installing charging stations? Who does the final cost go to for installing and for those using the stations? Why should I get taxed on them for someone else to use if I am not using them? 02:29:43 Edith Ayer: Good points Bruno 02:29:54 Jolene: exactly...... 02:29:59 Sandy Abbey: Well you have be income eligible for NYSERDA and some of us living paycheck to paycheck still would not be eligible for any help. 02:30:47 Dan Lamb: The town board has asked our planning board to study the stretch code and offer recommendations. When that gets on their agenda, please come to the planning board meetings and add to the discussion. 02:31:16 JAMES HOLMAN: yes is there anyway to see the financial implications of all these proposed changes, especially before the vote occurs, ideas are all good and dandy and we should shoot for the future, but financial implications are very important to see how realistic a lot of these ideas are and at what cost so we can make a fiscal choice 02:31:50 kathryn russell: https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Programs/Programs/Energy-Code-Training/NYStretch-Energy-Code-2020 02:31:55 Shirley Lyon: While the energy plants can produce the needed energy, the concern is can the lines carry the fast increasing load. It is not a good thing to run in a home a stove on a 110 line, instead of a 220 that can carry the load. 02:32:32 Alicia Caswell: and our infrastructure can't handle the load 02:32:44 Ed Wilson: Martha where does the money for grants come from.... US 02:32:49 Alicia Caswell: lines where I live have been here for more than 60 years 02:33:03 Shirley Lyon: I have read that a rapid increase on the lines might cause houses getting unit restrictions. 02:33:13 Jolene: adding more burden on a grid that is already old 02:33:18 Alicia Caswell: Yes 02:33:26 Douglas Brown: I'm for electric vehicle charging stations...as long as the people utilizing them pay for the power they use charging their vehicles and not the rest of us. 02:33:29 Jacques Schickel: Martha wants to build a future for the wealthy. 02:33:43 Lawrence Lyon: My concern is growing, during this virtual meeting, that we are insisting on moving this process forward under the transient constraints of COVID. Great exchange of thoughts and proposals, but we need to open up the process again. I suspect that too many, like me, are late to this party and uncomfortable with the sense of a tightening noose. 02:33:56 Jolene: overwhelming the cost of everything else????? so my bills are going up..... 02:34:06 Nancy Kleinrock: Very well put, Martha: The town will profit by looking to the future and its opportunities 02:34:09 JAMES HOLMAN: how universal are charging stations? 02:34:18 Alicia Caswell: I agree with Lawrence Lyon 02:34:20 Jolene: yes Lawrence Lyon...... 02:34:53 Alicia Caswell: Exactly the Town will profit, the homeowners/landowners will suffer 02:34:59 Dave Bradley: Gas goes. Out sometimes, too. Last year electricity went out for all of 4 hours in Dryden, so slim probability of that. And if you want a back-up gas unit to supply heating for less than 0.1% of the time… oh well, such redundancy is also expensive on a capital basis. Who has that kind of money..? 02:34:59 Shirley Lyon: I agree, lets slow this process down for the sake of our community. 02:35:32 Christine Nash: None of these people are considering the vast amount of waste that will be produced when all of these solar panels and wind turbines are no longer viable. They become waste. If they cared at all about the next generation(s), they would actually look at the waste they are producing for those generations. 02:35:51 Tony Salerno: Not true 02:36:09 Jim Crawford: Well said, Lawrence, and we need to bear in mind how FEW of us Dryden Residents are in on this conversation. This meeting was quite difficult to join and it’s apparent that we’ve lost a number of participants since last time. 02:36:16 Eveline Ferretti: Yep, that's why I'm in this discussion. For my kids. 02:36:28 kathryn russell: Yes, John Suter! Follow the leadership of young people 02:36:37 paul simonet: I just googled percent of electricity produced by natural gas= 38.4%; from coal 23.4% (Source eia.gov) 02:37:02 Eveline Ferretti: Thank you John Suter 02:37:45 Nancy Kleinrock: Very well put, John Suter; need to look toward the future and the young people who will populate it 02:38:18 Martha Robertson: Yes, Paul Simonet - as a nation we have to "green up" the grid! Beyond our pay grade in Dryden... but it is happening. The more we electrify, the more sustainable our systems are. 02:38:27 Chris Carrick: Paul according to NYISO (which runs our grid) the Upstate grid is 88% zero emission and 9% fossil fuel. We have one of the cleanest grids in the country https://www.nyiso.com/documents/20142/2223020/2020-Power-Trends-Report.pdf/dd91ce25-11fe-a14f-52c8-f1a9bd9085c2 02:39:25 Douglas Brown: Again,Bruno is the voice of reason and liberty. 02:39:26 Alicia Caswell: Thank you Bruno! 02:39:32 paul simonet: Sorry I HAVE to shake off. Great discussion!! 02:39:37 Jolene: yes to Bruno 02:39:37 Rocco Lucente: I completely agree with Bruno about the use of force. The role of these plans should be to encourage the things which the town would like to see, granting the flexibility to change as the developer and community see fit. 02:39:44 Shirley Lyon: Yes, Bruno! 02:39:49 Alicia Caswell: If you keep forcing, you will just drive people our of your community 02:39:49 Dave Bradley: Christine - wind turbines are mostly recyclable - especially all the metals used (even concrete towers can be crunched up. The blades can get burned for energy, and there is a big effort to replace epoxy resin with “renewable acrylates”. The energy payback on a wind turbine is less than 6 months and they are expected to last 30 years. So 60 times the amount of renewable electricity is made form a modern commercial scale wind turbine than the SUM of ALL the energy used to make the components/transport them/install them (the embedded energy). Such a deal… 02:40:01 Rocco Lucente: Voluntaryism is the most civil method of governing. Amen, Bruno! 02:40:14 paul simonet: Agree with Bruno,...again...! 02:40:19 Lawrence Lyon: Thank you for this voice of reason, Bruno. 02:41:11 Douglas Brown: Forgive me Martha Robertson, but "baloney", a tax goes into government coffers and they hand it out to those who think like them. 02:41:21 Eveline Ferretti: I agree that incentives are so much more preferable than mandates. But it's also true that at some point, seat belts needed to become mandatory. Metaphorically speaking. 02:41:22 Jim Crawford: Martha, and incentive or a PENALTY? 02:41:23 Jacques Schickel: that is a tax not an incentive. It’s punitive 02:41:27 Jolene: lol...you nailed it, Douglas 02:41:28 kathryn russell: Volunteerism isn't working. It's too slow and people in this country are way behind in understanding what the world needs. 02:41:36 Shirley Lyon: I’m with you D. Brown. 02:41:44 Nancy Kleinrock: The bill Martha refers to, the Energy Innovation and Dividend Act, is a well-thought-out and balanced proposal. 02:41:47 JAMES HOLMAN: according to your opinion Kathryn lol 02:42:08 JAMES HOLMAN: whether it be right or wrong 02:42:09 Jolene: so......Martha says you can heat the way you want, but you’ll be fined if it is not what they want. got it. 02:42:22 Shirley Lyon: “incentive”, spoken like a true politician. 02:42:33 Jolene: lol...yes, Shirley Lyon 02:43:21 Rocco Lucente: RE Martha’s latest comment: Regarding incentives, perhaps the way to thread the needle between not forcing people but also providing an incentive would be to tie these desire to an IDA rather than to the zoning as a whole. That way people who want the benefits can get them and those who would rather proceed without can do so. 02:43:48 Shirley Lyon: We need MORE community meetings! 02:43:55 Jolene: Kathryn Russell.....I can’t believe you want to force people, that you actually wrote that. shame on you! 02:44:27 Douglas Brown: I agree with Shirley Lyon. We need more discussion with more people. 02:44:54 Jolene: agree with Shirley Lyon also 02:45:15 JAMES HOLMAN: where can we access the $$$$ implicatiosn associated w/ what the board will vote on 02:45:19 Alicia Caswell: And more advertised community meetings 02:45:21 Martha Robertson: https://citizensclimatelobby.org/. 02:46:04 Fred Stock: We'll need a disaster plan for when the grid goes down with your long term plans. 02:46:15 Sandy Abbey: The board should not vote. The people of the TOWN should be the ones who vote 02:46:20 Jolene: we need to wait u til the rest of the community can participate, those who don’t have access to technology/zoom. 02:46:26 Alicia Caswell: Yes Fred! 02:46:26 William Drake: What do you currently heat your house with Martha? board members? Show us how you have not increased your utility bills substantially. 02:46:54 Jolene: agree, Sandy Abbey 02:47:18 Martha Robertson: Wood and oil, William. Hoping to put heat pumps in next year. 02:47:24 Alicia Caswell: Yes Martha and other board members, how do you currently heat your house. 02:47:36 Shirley Lyon: I know several people that had trouble getting on to this meeting. I know a lot of people that have worked hard to bring this meeting to us, BUT let us not leave out the rest of the tax payers. 02:48:02 Lawrence Lyon: Clearly, something of the import and impact of Plan2045 needs to be put to a Town vote. 02:48:18 Alicia Caswell: Lucky you Martha for being able to put heat pumps in. Must be nice to have the financial resources to do so. 02:48:49 Martha Robertson: The furnace is dying, so gotta do something! 02:48:49 Douglas Brown: I agree, this plan should be put to a vote of the town's people. 02:48:50 Jim Crawford: I suggest again that the Community Survey you did in July last year needs to be re-done with more fairly worded questions and it must gain a response from a much larger number of homeowners and residents. 02:49:00 Dave Bradley: As to markets and methane - they are not peresently functional, highly deformed and the external costs of methane usage to date are not paid. There is also a cost to the community for “methane addiction” - remember, we export money/import unemployment when we import methane into this community. And at least renewable electricity can be made locally/regionally in NY State. That cannot be said for methane. Plus, the future price of fracked methane is not knowable. The cost of renewable electricity is completely predictable over the life of the projects. 02:49:12 Jolene: needs to be a town vote 02:49:22 Shirley Lyon: What is the rush. We can function on the zoning we have now. 02:49:24 Alice Green: Alicia, Heat Smart Tompkins is currently offering free heat pumps for families who qualify. 02:49:37 Alicia Caswell: and I bet I don't qualify 02:49:39 Elizabeth Wolff: William, that’s how we were able to put solar panels on our shop…great program 02:49:43 Alicia Caswell: I'll check though 02:49:49 Jolene: free heat pumps? no such thing....someone is paying for them 02:49:50 Shirley Lyon: Will there be more meetings? 02:50:02 Lawrence Lyon: Yes, survey again. This can be done in a world -class way with both Cornell and local school resources. 02:50:02 Amy Dickinson: Thank you for a well-run, smoothly moderated workshop 02:50:40 Lawrence Lyon: Nice job tonight, Jane and Samuel. 02:50:47 Douglas Brown: Same thought as Amy Dickinson. Nicely done. We need more of the same. 02:51:41 kathryn russell: Thank you Jane for very good facilitation. 02:52:11 Lawrence Lyon: We must slow this process down. Seriously. Too much affected by imperative of virtual meetings. More than February 24. Much more. 02:52:23 Martha Robertson: Can everyone who registered get a message about the Feb. 24 deadline? Thank you! 02:52:28 Shirley Lyon: When is the est. time for completion on the 2045 Plan? 02:52:30 Alice Green: Alicia, Lisa@HeatSmartTompkins.org. 02:52:48 JAMES HOLMAN: so is there going to be a cost associated w/ changes or are we just voting based on ideals w/ no $ /tax /spending rrepercussions? 02:52:54 Shirley Lyon: Anyone...est. time? 02:53:43 Alice Green: The hope is to complete the plan by the end of 2021 02:53:44 Eveline Ferretti: Thank you! 02:53:47 Kyle Hatch - EDR: Thank you everyone